Austin Hourigan Loves Lord of the Rings!
Austin Hourigan (ShoddyCast) is here to prove that Lord of the Rings is more interesting than the movie musical Grease. One does not simply… walk into this podcast.
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Find Us Online
- website: tmaipod.com
- patreon: patreon.com/TMAIpod
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Cast & Crew
- Hosts: Adal Rifai & Eric Silver
- Producer: Eric Silver
- Editor: Mischa Stanton
- Created by: Eric Silver & Mischa Stanton
- Theme Song: Arne Parrott
- Artwork: Shae McMullin
- Multitude: multitude.productions
About Us
Tell Me About It is a madcap game show about proving that the things you like are actually interesting and cool. Adal Rifai is an eccentric billionaire who forces someone new every episode to share, argue, and defend the thing they love the most. He’s wrangled his audio butler Eric to lead the contestant through a series of absurd challenges and games, all to gain points and get on the Most Interesting Thing High Score Board. Tell Me About It: the most fun podcast run by a multibillionaire. New episodes every other Thursday.
[theme]
ADAL: Welcome to Tell Me About It, a game show about proving the things you love are actually interesting and fun. I am of course Adal Rifai, local eccentric bil— multi-, sorry, multi-billionaire. I almost just did the single ‘B,’ which is not correct. And I am still looking for someone to show me something that is better and more interesting than the movie Grease. I mean, you could argue Grease 2, but I think it's— I think it's a clear one and two. Though I am not doing this by myself, please welcome my butler and what Gollum would look like if he was obsessed with rare N64 controllers instead of the One Ring, Eric Silver.
ERIC: My precious atomic purple N64 controller, my precious.
ADAL: Oh wow, you need to Game Stop buddy. Wow.
ERIC: No, it's going to the moon. I have diamond hands—
ADAL: Nooo—
ERIC: —which I repla—which you replaced because you said diamond was better than skin.
ADAL: Oh yeah, how are your diamond hands working out? I noticed that all your cutlery was ruined.
ERIC: Now— Well now I can cut through things with my hands. So—and but on the other hand, my wife does not want me to touch her. So it's a— it's a plus- minus, plus and minus.
ADAL: Well, I think that was always the case. Eric, you can cut through things with your hands. So I guess I didn't know this, me just being an idiot multi-billionaire.
ERIC: Sure.
ADAL: Diamonds don't have to be sharpened or you—you can just have a diamond and cut through anything with it just by chopping it?
ERIC: You definitely sharpened it to be as sharp as possible. You said ‘why have a diamond if it's not sharp? I might as well just leave it in the ground, which I would never do because I want to explode it.’
ADAL: Okay.
ERIC: —and then you started a new diamond mine company.
ADAL: Fine, you caught me I was gaslighting you. I sharpened them, I sharpened them, you're right. Just testing—
ERIC: Yeah.
ADAL: —just seeing.
ERIC: You are the one who started using the phrase ‘natural diamonds,’ which just means—
ADAL: Yes.
ERIC: —regular diamonds. So you— you're an innovator.
ADAL: Yes. Well, I do subscribe to Natural Diamonds Magazine, it's my one guilty pleasure. I read— I read it for the articles, Natural Diamonds.
ERIC: You don't read for the carats? No?
ADAL: No, no, not at all. And it is exciting, Eric, it is exciting to know that once you and I are both long gone off this mortal coil, your hands will remain.
ERIC: Mmm. They'll be worth it, then you can plug them into yourself like Krang from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
ADAL: Ooh, that would be fun.
ERIC: Yeah, that's the second reference to Krang in a few episodes, I remem—
ADAL: Wow, you're really— you really got Krang brain, as they call it.
ERIC: You're—
ADAL: As Kevin Eastman would call it.
ERIC: Yeah, I gotta get that checked out. My health insurance is not good enough for– to see a doctor about it.
ADAL: And I told you I would look into it. I've been saying that for the last 20 years Eric, I will look into it. Jeez.
ERIC: That's true. You're looking right into my brain and you're telling me what I need to know.
ADAL: Well, Eric, I don't want to continue to talk about the upgrades I need to give you as an employee of mine. I would prefer to talk about my father's diamond hand mine that he left to me, but we won't do that because that's not what this show is about.
ERIC: Right. No, that never happened. Don't ask us about it—
ADAL: Yes.
ERIC: Stop asking us.
ADAL: So path B, if we are Robert Frost-ing it, which we always are, is— who's our guest today and what are we talking about?
ERIC: Well, I would love to introduce the creator of the ShoddyCast, a YouTube channel which teaches people science through video games and other incredibly interesting video essays. Please give it up for our guest today, Austin Hourigan.
AUSTIN: Hi, how's it going? It's me, I'm here. I don't have diamond hands.
ADAL: Oh.
ERIC: Yeah, that's fine that—you can't— now you can only hold things regularly, like a dumb human.
AUSTIN: Yeah, I do feel like they are inferior in every—every conceivable way.
ADAL: Hmm, yeah, look at those little meat paws, huh? What—what can you do with those? Anything fun?
AUSTIN: I can pick up my nail trimmers that I have right here. I'm really bad at guitar. I can kind of badly play guitar with them.
ERIC: All good.
AUSTIN: That's about it. I can c—
ADAL: Cool…
AUSTIN: Nevermind. I can—I don't— what is the— what is the rating of this show? I was gonna say I can pee standing up and name everything that's—
ADAL: It's—it's a— it's a soft G. Eric, show this motherfucker the door.
ERIC: I will. I think it's—
ADAL: This guy—this guy called nail clippers ‘nail trimmers.’
ERIC: I just thought it was nice for you that you threw a guitar and nail trimmers in his cage. I thought that was so nice of you. You haven't given me anything, at all. You wouldn't even let me see a guitar.
ADAL: Well, you live in a gilded cage. Austin, apologies, we will give you a chance. Could you play us some bad guitar? Said no one eve—
AUSTIN: Noooo.
ADAL: —said no one ever.
AUSTIN: That's not happening, not a chance. No way.
ADAL: I was gonna say we can go out back where I have had my landscapers create a faux college quad. You could sing some DMB perhaps?
ERIC: Yeah, it's right inside of the wonder wall that you had erected.
AUSTIN: I actually—
ERIC: Yes.
AUSTIN: —so I am actually—so I just started learning a month ago and I am, as a rule, not learning how to play Wonderwall. Like, I'm just not going to do it. It's just like I am not— and that is I—I could learn how to play, like, anything like classical guitar, but I'm never going to have Wonderwall in my repertoire. I'm just gonna be like, ‘sorry, I don't know how to play it.’
ADAL: Interesting. Because Oasis technically is one of the seven Wonderwalls of the natural world. Austin, very quick question. This is going to affect if you play or not, Noel or Liam? Go, quick.
AUSTIN: Liam.
ADAL: Oh, that was correct. Okay, you can stay. If you said Noel, we would have tossed you to the lions. But we'll save the Christians for that. Austin, thank you so much for being here. At— a little birdie told me, well, it was Eric dressed in a bird costume. Eric, go ahead and take off that raven suit.
ERIC: Nevermore. I want to keep it on for always.
ADAL: Okay, fine. Whatever floats your boat. Austin, a little birdie told me that you're a huge fan of Lord of the Rings.
AUSTIN: I am a huge fan of Lord of the Rings. Yes, I—It started all back when the movies came out. Actually, no, I did— I read The Hobbit in high school - not high school, way before then. What's the—what do you call—? What do human children go to before high school? They go to middle school?
ADAL: Pre-high school.
AUSTIN: Pre-high school. Oh, elementary school!
ADAL: Boarding sc— Oh! I know what it's called, boarding school.
ERIC: Police academy.
AUSTIN: Yeah, my dad made me read The Hobbit in elementary school and I loved it. And then in middle school, I read The Lord of the Rings and I didn't understand it super well, because it had Lord of the Rings vocabulary.
ERIC: Sure.
AUSTIN: But—then the movies came out and I reread them all and then I got really into The Silmarillion and having opinions about Tolkien lore. Yeah, so yeah, I love Lord of the Rings. I ha— I actually have not watched the latest TV show yet, though, because I've been too busy. But I'm going to, eventually.
ADAL: I don't care either way. Austin, I've never heard the sentence ‘my dad made me read The Hobbit.’ I'm excited to unpack that. I think we both probably share some father issues and maybe we can subtly tip our hats to that along the way.
AUSTIN: Yeah, he was like one of those, like, hippy boomer types who became like, not a hippie anymore. And he— I don't know, like, Lord of the Rings was like one of those seminal, like books for him when he was in college. Like everyone was getting high and reading The Hobbit, like there was a bunch of like, Led Zeppelin songs about it, about Lord of the Rings. And I think it was just part of that phase of his life. So he was like, ‘yeah, here's a—here's The Hobbit, you have to read it.’ I liked it, though, it's a good book.
ADAL: I hope, abso—I hope so if you’re going to talk about it for an hour.
ERIC: D— when he gave you the book, did he say ‘don't worry about the things I'll start saying in 30 years, just enjoy this moment’?
AUSTIN: [laughs] Look, I never— I think I read the original copy, too. It was the one before it was edited for— because there was a— there was a release copy which was just supposed to be kind of like a fairy tale for kids. And then as it made a ton of money, Tolkien's publishers were like, ‘yo, give us something else, you know, we need something else, like, come on this is a cash cow, we need it.’ And he was like, [in a nasal voice] ‘okay, I've been working on The Silmarillion behind the scenes. It's this book that's really heavy and it's got all these details about the lore—the lore of the Elves, and the— Elrond and, and Morgoth.’ And they were like, ‘no, we're not putting anything like that on our shelves at all. Like, that is not what we're doing. Come up with something else.’ So he came up with Lord of the Rings and he kind of retconned a couple, just a couple spots of the rich—of the—of The Hobbit to make it fit a little bit more. So like originally—
ERIC: Yes.
AUSTIN: The Lord of the—the ring was just, like, just some magic ring that made a guy invisible. And the riddle was a little bit more lighthearted. The riddle in the dark scene with Gollum was a little bit more of a lighthearted scene, it was just kind of like, ‘oh, there's this wacky guy who lives in a cave and doesn't wear pants’ like—
ADAL: More of a rom-com meet-cute situation.
AUSTIN: It kind of— it really was though. Yeah, I mean it’s— and— he did steal the ring from the guy, but uh, yeah, I think that's the copy I originally read. It's really hard to get your hands on now because they changed it to be a little bit more sinister and dangerous. I'm not sure of all the changes, but that was one of them.
ADAL: Yeah, it's also hard for Eric to get his hands on anything, because he cuts right through it. Whatever he touches.
ERIC: It's an Edward scissors hand situation, but instead of scissors as previously established, it's diamonds.
ADAL: Little Eric diamond hands. Awesome, thank you so much for letting us know your backstory and relationship with To—you said Tolkien right?
AUSTIN: Yes.
ADAL: Okay, because I've heard some people—some people in some pubs in England—
AUSTIN: ‘Tol-keen’?
ADAL: —have corrected me to say ‘Tol-keen.’
AUSTIN: Oh, maybe it is.
ADAL: So I'm glad to hear Tolkien is corr— or at least today, we can all agree.
AUSTIN: I have a book in front of me it says Tol—I mean, I would say ‘Tol-kyne’ if I was going to be like—
ADAL: Well—
AUSTIN: —really particular about it. Like—
ADAL: I don't think the book’s—
AUSTIN: —it’s I-E-N.
ADAL: —I don't think the book’s gonna say the pronunciation, uh—
AUSTIN: Well, it’s phonics, it's—
ADAL: —I have your—I have your name in front of me and—
AUSTIN: —it's phonics! Come on, you did not learn phonics in high school or—
ADAL: I did not. As I mentioned, I went to boarding school.
AUSTIN: Oh, that's right.
ADAL: Where we had silver spoons placed in our mouth - well, I had two. And we were just patted on the head for about six years. Eric, why don't we go ahead and shuffle on down? Well, let me think of a Led Zeppelin Lord of the Rings lyric, why don't we walk up that stairway to Mordor, round one?
ERIC: Very good.
ADAL: And—and start the show-off, yes.
ERIC: Unironically, I'm always very impressed by you doing this. I'm trying to think of a way to say it that doesn't sound condescending. But I'm just enjoying this transition, I think it's great. Alright, we're here at round one, Just Tell Me About It. Austin, I have written down 10 foundational points about Lord of the Rings that I have collated from Wikipedia and the internet.
AUSTIN: Oh, no.
ERIC: I just—I want us— we're gonna have a conversation for five minutes about your topic, Lord of the Rings. Give me— just give us an overview. You get points for each bullet you address, especially if you make them sound interesting and cool. Like obviously that great impression you did of Tolkien. You really made him come to life. I'm gonna set five minutes on the clock. Austin, please tell us about Lord of the Rings. [background music starts]
AUSTIN: Okay, Lord of the Rings is a trilogy that is set in the realm of Middle Earth. It's actually in a bigger world called—oh no, see, I already forgot. It's— the bigger world has a name that I forgot the name of. But it doesn't matter because nothing happens in the wider world, it all happens on Middle Earth. And the Lord of the Rings proper follows Frodo Baggins and his companions through the realm of Middle Earth as they go to deliver this magic ring that was found many, many years ago by Bilbo's uncle, Bilbo. [laughs] Bilbo's— Bilbo's— I almost said Bilbo's uncle Frodo. No, Bilbo found the ring many, many years before the start of the Lord of the Rings. And it turns out this is a big bad ring that belonged to a guy called Sauron. And I almost said Morgoth, because that's how stupid I am.
ADAL: Well, I will say anytime I go to the mall, I think ‘less goths.’
[laughter]
AUSTIN: Well, fine, we'll call him—well, if you're gonna be sassy about it, I'm gonna call him Melkor, okay? So Sauron is a lieutenant of a guy called Morgoth, which is why I almost said Morgoth. Anyway, Sauron is a big bad guy - supposedly - who lives in the southeastern quadrant of Middle Earth and he lives behind this— these walls of mountains, and it's, like, got a big volcano called Mount Doom. And so, like, in case you were, like, guessing at whether he's a bad guy, he's got a big Mount Doom there, and it's lava and stinky. And so they have to take this ring all the way from The Shire, which is like—like a English hamlet suburb place. And it's like, literally paradise, and take it to Mordor, where— it’s the the only— well, it's not technically the only place that it can be destroyed, maybe technically, but it's—it's the only place that they can actually get to where the ring can be destroyed. And so Frodo leaves, he meets a bunch of guys, including a guy called Aragorn who's like— he's basically a Mary Sue in a D&D campaign. He can— he can do everything good, he's handsome. He's like, partially immortal and he's like, got this elf girlfriend whose name is Arwen. Anyway, he meets up with this guy, they go to the—the city of the Elves, where there's like a—like a meet-cute for all the different characters. There's Gimli, Legolas, Boromir, who's from this place called Gondor. They all come together and are like, ‘okay, we got to destroy this ring.’ So they head off with this guy called Gandalf, he's like a big wizard. He's kind of— he's Merlin, he's Merlin, he's basically Merlin.
ERIC: Sure.
AUSTIN: And so they set off with him and they go—they have to—they have to, there's a big geography lesson if you look at the—the maps are really important if you're reading these books because they actually dictate the path they're gonna take. Well, they try to take this short path through the mountains, but there's a massive storm that probably is magical and they can't actually pass through that area. So they decide to go through Moria, which is this, like, tomb that used to be the— the Elven stronghold in the— in the world. So they head through there, they find out that everyone there that tried to reclaim it years ago has died. There— they stumble upon a demon called a Balrog, which ‘kills,’ quote-unquote, Gandalf. And then they—wow, I'm literally not even through the first book yet and I'm almost out of time. So they get through to the other side, there's a big journey. They go through all these high jinks, the team splits. They make it to Mordor, believe it or not, and then oh, shit! There's this guy called Gollum who—he was the guy who originally had the ring that Bilbo get— took the ring from. He ends up with Frodo and Sam, and he leads them into Mordor. All in the meanwhile, there's a bunch of geopolitical stuff going on that I don't have time for. They get to Mordor after losing Gollum and then Frodo—Sam thinks Frodo is dead. He takes the ring, Frodo is not dead. I'm out of time, I know that look.
ERIC: One—no, you have one minute, great summary. Tell us about, like, around the books. What's the good—what do you like about the books and what are some cool parts about it?
AUSTIN: Okay, what I like about the books is the epic scope of it all and the world-building is just really phenomenal. Like they— there's a lot of, like, stuff to get bogged down in and I—when I remember when I was a kid, I used to skip it all because it's like ‘I don't care about elves singing their elven songs, I just do not give a shit about this.’ But if you want to get into it, there's, like, lot— they tell, like, the story of the whole world in— in actually pretty concise detail if you— if you think about it that way. And then there's like these appendices in the back that you can get like really nitty gritty if you want to. They just— it brings the whole thing to life. It really makes you feel like you're reading a history novel more than you're actually reading like a story. So they get the ring to Mordor, spoilers. They throw it in.
ERIC: You have 10—you have 10 seconds.
AUSTIN: They throw it in and everyone lives happily ever after. Mostly, except Frodo has chronic depression and PTSD. But I mean, you know what are you going to do, it's a war, so.
ERIC: And time! [laughs; background music ends]
ADAL: Outstanding. Austin, fantastic.
AUSTIN: I front-loaded everything.
ERIC: You told us the fun parts. Honestly, the— the parts where everyone puts their weapons in the middle and says— yeah, that's tight, that's the best part. So you—you told us the good tho— you told us the good parts.
ADAL: I do love the panic induced ‘I'm four minutes in and I'm only—’
AUSTIN: Yeah, I didn’t reali— I was like ‘5 minutes is not a lot of time.’
ADAL: ‘---uh, a tenth of the way through the first movie!’
AUSTIN: I was like ‘there's so much more than happens. Oh my god.’
ADAL: Austin, for— we're gonna get to your point tally in just a moment. We'll head over to Eric to— to see that. But before we do, I have an opportunity—
AUSTIN: It's gonna be bad, because I didn't cover the whole thing.
ADAL: Well, we’ll let— well this—we'll see, we'll see what's gonna happen.
ERIC: I'll never tell.
ADAL: Thank you for—
AUSTIN: You just said you're gonna tell.
ERIC: I'll definitely tell you in a moment.
ADAL: I do have an opportunity for a bonus point. Austin, for a bonus point of, we’ll say 10 bonus points, what is Gandalf's favorite Suga Ray song?
AUSTIN: Butterfly?
ADAL: It's fly, you fool.
AUSTIN: Fly you foo—oh, no! Oh, God.
ADAL: But you did say butterfly, which is a Sugar Ray song, and there's that epic scene where Gandalf is at the top of Saruman's tower and a butterfly lands in his hand and he whispers to it he says, ‘hey, girl, what's going on baby?’ And the butterfly says ‘not now.’ So we will give you— I'm gonna give you half points, so you get five points for still keeping it in-world, nice in-world reference.
AUSTIN: Do I get a point for pointing out it's a moth, not a butterfly?
ADAL: Huh. Well, I was trying to support your answer, so no.
AUSTIN: Damn it!
ADAL: Actually, yeah—no, remove one point, he—he gets—
AUSTIN: Noooo!
ADAL: —4 points for correcting me, for trying to support him.
ERIC: This is Lord of the Rings, so I feel like it is within— it is within character to correct us on small things that we did not know.
AUSTIN: Fun fact, I don't actually know if that happens in the books or not. I think in the books, the eagle literally is just kind of like, ‘oh, it's Gandalf, he looks like he's in trouble I should go get that guy.’ So I think the moth makes a little bit more narrative sense.
ADAL: It’s— yeah.
AUSTIN: It's a little bit less Deus Ex Machina. Yeah.
ADAL: It's a 20-minute internal monologue from the eagle being like, ‘huh, is that Gandalf? Should I—’
AUSTIN: ‘Haven’t seen him in a while.’
ADAL: ‘He looks wet.’ Eric, let's go ahead and head over to the scoreboard, please.
ERIC: Absolutely. Alright, so for round one, you hit the import—the— the summary part of what I have written down. You hit all the books that are in that—you hit all the books that J.R.R. Tolkien had written, even with your great impression of J.R.R. Tolkien, as I said, it really brought him to life. And you said how popular the books were. You named a lot of the characters who I was looking for. I can't believe you left my main man Legolas. You didn't even mention him and none of the other hobbits, but that's fine. You got the majority of them and that's good and you said the basic plot. If by basic plot, you mean summarize the whole first book. I was looking for any sort of themes of the books because there's so many themes.
AUSTIN: There's brotherhood, there's Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, there's all sorts of—
ERIC: Yeah.
AUSTIN: —the horrors of war, hope is a big— what, they basically say hope like 30-40,000 times in the books. Yeah, I guess I really stuck to the— the rote details.
ERIC: That's alright, but you did mention— you did mention with Dungeons and Dragons that it was the— and all of this stuff, this was the modern fantasy genre of just updating as Merlin is Gandalf and I thought that was really good. And you did mention the incredibly specific stuff in the appendices, which I had written down because you can learn elv—you can actually learn Elvish—
AUSTIN: Yeah.
ERIC: —which is a real language. So adding that stuff up, you got a half point for some of this stuff. I'm gonna give you 6 and a half points.
AUSTIN: Nice, that's a D, I'll take it.
ERIC: That's—
ADAL: And, Austin—
AUSTIN: That’s my average in high school.
ADAL: Oh, no. Austin, I will round it up to a clean 7, if you can answer me this true or false question. True or false, the Lord of the Rings movies, or at least the recent TV show really missed the fucking boat to not cast Joanna Newsom as an elven singer.
AUSTIN: True!
ADAL: Yes, you're correct, they should have done that. I don't know why they didn't, she has a elvish angelic voice that would have been perfect casting.
ERIC: And very similarly, she—as elves are just kind of into random dudes, Joanna Newsom, into Andy Sandberg, much like Arwen was into Aragorn.
ADAL: Absolutely. Andy Samberg, the Mel Brooks of our time. I think?
ERIC: He's really happy you said that. He—because he's really upset that people keep calling him the Adam Sandler. So 7 plus 4, you are up to 11 points.
AUSTIN: Oh, I'll take it.
ADAL: Ooh, 11, not bad. Eric, why don't we go ahead and— oh boy, let's think of ano— another Lord of the Rings analogy. Why don't we go ahead and fly us fools over to round two?
ERIC: Sir, incredible. Incredible, I loved it.
ADAL: Thank you for kneeling. Let me take this sword and carefully cut off both your ears.
ERIC: [as Gollum]: My precious, my precious. All I want is a Pikachu controller! [In normal voice] Alright, we're here at round two, as I put my split personality aside. Round two is called the Perfect Thing. Austin, I want you to describe a perfect encapsulation of Lord of the Rings. If someone asked you, ‘well, what's an example for why you love Lord of the Rings so much?’ What is something that you would say? And this is going to be 10 points.
AUSTIN: 10 points, an encapsulation of— wow, I'm terrible at elev— elevator pitches. This is going to just go swimmingly.
ERIC: I—It doesn't have to be an elevator pitch necessarily. It can be like a crystallized mo— like what is a moment that crystallizes the thing that you love?
AUSTIN: Okay, so the thing that I loved the most about Lord of the Rings original— like, I'm talking like when I read Lord of the Rings the very first time, aside from, like, the world building, which is fantastic - it was really my first experience with major world-building. But Gandalf dying— like, he eventually comes back through kind of like a divine intervention thing later. But it was my real first experience with a character dying in a book.
ADAL: Can I just say I once had a divine intervention? I came home, all my friends and family were there, there was a big banner that said ‘intervention’ and some deities came down and they said, ‘listen, there's better ways to spend your money’ and I w— sorry, go back to what you were saying.
AUSTIN: I mean, it's kind of what happened to Gandalf, he th— he was dying, and then you know someone came down, said, ‘hey, bro, you're not allowed to be in peace. You got to come back and do all the hard shit.’ But no, I mean, seeing a character die on—on the page, and that he did not come back for a long time. I really thought he was dead. Seeing that kind of bru—it was— it was brutal in a fantasy way, like in what we would call like, kind of fantasy violence. It wasn't like, ‘oh, his entrails ripped out and bleh,’ but it—it was a introduction to the notion of death and stakes for me.
ADAL: And in—and in the story he— I mean at the time he dies, he's—
AUSTIN: He does die.
ADAL: —maybe everyone's—
AUSTIN: Yeah.
ADAL: —yeah. But I'm saying he's maybe everyone's favorite character at that point like—
AUSTIN: Oh, for sure, yeah.
ADAL: It built— there's a build to where we're like, ‘oh, this is the best guy’ and then he died.
ERIC: Well, we just saw him smoke weed really cool in the beginning of the story, so absolutely.
AUSTIN: He uh— Yeah, and for me, I had actually read The Hobbit. So I had this, like, pre— like I had already had like, so much, like, almost like a prequel attachment to him. Like it—it def—went beyond the books. And they do show him as being like the heart of the fellowship because it breaks apart almost immediately after. They go to the Elven City afterwards, and then very shortly after that, they leave and Boromir tries to take the ring, the— Frodo and Sam like GTFO. Pippin and Mary are kidnapped, and so the whole fellowship falls apart because the soul of it, the heart and soul of it, basically die. I mean, didn't basically die. According to canon, Gandalf does actually die. So–and when he comes back, he's not quite the same, which is another interesting facet that became, I guess, seminal to modern fantasy to— to good fantasy, where if you do come back to life— like, it talks about li—or if you have a near death, like a true near-death experience it's very transformative. And that's something that happens to Gandalf. He's kind of like Saruma–like he's—he's kind of treated as though he’s actually kind of like Saruman, he's like Saruman as he was supposed to be. So the way the books handle life and death and interweave it with the mysticism and keeping the stakes going, it makes you think that oh, Fro— like especially later on, when Frodo gets stung by Shelob, you’re like— you're like, oh, he died.
ADAL: [singing] Shelobs you, yeah, yeah.
AUSTIN: Because—
ADAL: Sorry I—I have Paul McCartney in my museum.
[laughter]
AUSTIN: So you—you do like wonder, you're like, ‘oh, shit, he died’ because they've already like kind of killed a guy and they've killed Boromir, they do it— they do, they kill the king of Rohan at one point. So like, yeah, it's—it was me kind of like finding my way into adult storytelling almost. Which is what the books actually are. They are taking the fairy tale of children, which is like The Hobbit - he wrote that for his kids - and it's like, here's a fairy tale for adults, which my children now are. Like it was— it was basically supposed to be the fairy tales for the adults who grew up with The Hobbit. And it's almost very Walt Disney because like Walt Disney had this like, I mean, aside from being a massive piece of shit, like, he had this idea where the entertainment that he did was supposed to be, like magical for all ages kind of a thing. And so that was also what Tolkien's idea with Lord of the Rings was. And so have— like—and that was my—that was genuinely my experience with it, it's like, oh, I went from The Hobbit, which is pretty, pretty soft. There's a death in it, but it's— it's very, it's one character dies at the very end and it's kind of a, like a symbolic death where it's important in—in a particular, you know, like a culmination of like, ‘oh, I did it as a redemption, like it made me a better person and was good for my people’ kind of thing. Whereas this—
ADAL: Did it all for the nookie?
[laughter]
AUSTIN: —which is kind of like it kills it, like you can't get the nookie if you're dead, like you—you should stay alive—
ADAL: Thank you.
AUSTIN: For the nookie.
ADAL: Eric, put that on a T-shirt and put it on our merch store. ‘You can't get the nookie if you’re dead.’
ERIC: They—absolutely. Uh—
ADAL: Austin, we'll mail you 20% of that.
AUSTIN: Yeah, I'll take it.
ERIC: On the—on the back it says, ‘Frodo cares about OPP.’ Yeah.
AUSTIN: So yeah, I think that's pretty much like what I think of the Lord of the Rings as a— as a broad, condensed thing, is that it’s a fairy tale for adults. And it was—that's what it was for me, it was a maturing event for me to read—to read the Lord of the Rings like it was— like I felt more mature having read it. Even though that probably wasn't the case.
ADAL: Austin, that was fantastic. Thank you so much. That was a delight to hear about and really made me—you made me reflect on what I think is— I— here, here's what I'll say, Austin. I adore the books. I love the movies. There's one moment in the movies that you brought up as one of the most seminal pivotal moments, emotional moments, which I think is the worst moment in movie history. Which is and I've—and I love Grease too. Which is there's a moment in the movies where they see Gandalf in a forest and they go ‘Gandalf?’, and he looks at them confounded, and he says ‘Gandalf? That sounds familiar, but I'm not Gandalf, I'm Gandalf the White.’ [Austin laughs] And to me— to me, every time I see that, I break my TV and I scream ‘fuck you’ and then Eric has to bring in another one. Why—what is that moment about? What—if someone came up to me and said ‘Adal?’, and I said ‘Adal? No, dude, I'm Adal Rifai,’ I'd look insane. Austin, do you have any— 30 seconds, can you convince me that isn't the worst moment in movie history?
AUSTIN: I don't think it's the worst moment in movie history. I think the worst moment in movie history is the ‘ah, Draco’ hug, because it's horrifying to watch. But the—
ERIC: Yeah, that's fair.
AUSTIN: —but uh—
ADAL: [laughing] 2 points to Austin.
AUSTIN: It's—it's certainly a little clu—it's—it's clumsily done. They are trying to communicate the idea that he, like, went through this major trial that, like, almost spanned, like, in his mind, like an eternity, where he, like, has to like dig deep for the mem—like, ‘oh, oh, yeah 1,000 years ago, some bros call me Ga—’ but he doesn't say ‘yeah, I'm not Gandalf the Grey, I’m Gandalf the White.’ It's— yeah, it's a little stupid.
ADAL: Okay.
AUSTIN: He should have been like, ‘yeah, they called me Ganda—’ I agree with you, it's a little clumsy. Because especially since he's got a bunch of names, like he could have—there—that scene could have been done a little better.
ADAL: Yeah. It's like calling Kid Rock ‘Kid.’ That— I could see where he—Kid Rock would say ‘no, my name is’ and then go into the full shebang. Austin, another two points for you for talking that—talking me off a cliff with that moment. I also have a very quick bonus question for you, which is you brought up Pippin and Merry. And my question to you is, do you think Merry could have won six rings without Pippin?
AUSTIN: Oh, wow, that took me a minute. No, no, I don't, I don't think so at all.
ADAL: That's, that's the correct answer.
AUSTIN: Pippin was pivotal to—to their—to 90s bowls. Absolutely.
ADAL: 10 points. 10 more points to Austin.
ERIC: Sure. It's—it was really important that uh—
AUSTIN: That one I was barely qualified for. I was hugely into The Dream Team back in the day, but that took me a bit.
ERIC: It was really important for the fellowship to have the worm there.
AUSTIN: Yes!
ERIC: Without the worm—
ADAL: Yes.
ERIC: —they wouldn't have gotten it done.
ADAL: Oh, yeah.
ERIC: Yeah.
AUSTIN: Everyone always forgets Kukoč though, you can't forget Kukoč. I know it's like the token, he's the token white Gondorian, but you just can't forget about him.
ERIC: Yeah.
ADAL: The Croatian sensation, the waiter.
ERIC: My sword, my axe, and my Toni Kukoč.
ADAL: Yeah, I think Rodman would be the ‘and my rebounds.’
ERIC: Yeah.
ADAL: Yeah, Dream Team versus the Lord of the Rings the—the seven, I think that would be an interesting matchup. I think David Robinson would pound ‘em inside, but it would be close.
AUSTIN: Aragorn has a sword, which I feel like is a major advantage in a scuffle.
ADAL: Oh, that'd get a whistle immediately.
ERIC: That's true.
ADAL: Let's see here. Eric, why don't we go ahead and score— tally up the scores. Oh, I sound like a little Englishman, tally up the scores for round two, please.
ERIC: Absolutely. We just—
ADAL: Sorry, round two the Return of the King? No. Round two, the two— the two—
ERIC: Round two, the two towers.
ADAL: —towers?
ERIC: Yeah, it's named like Fast and the Furious.
ADAL: Thank you.
ERIC: Yeah. I—all I need is the score for how you think Austin did out of 10 during that explanation.
ADAL: Hooo. I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say a solid seven.
ERIC: Alright, that's a 7. So you started wi— you had 11 before, 2 extra points, 10 extra points, and 7, that adds up to 30 points.
ADAL: Oh, good job my little Gamwise Samgee.
ERIC: Thank you. Thank you, my lord, I'm still working on it.
[theme]
ERIC: Hello, it's Eric. I'm here in the butler's pantry, where I can hide out and no one can tell me to do anything. And I want to talk to you directly about the podcast because we're best friends. Yeah, yeah, just listen to my podcasts makes me best friends, that's how bleak my life is. Also, something that's not bleak is our Patreon @patreon.com/tmaipod, where you can become my super best friend and become a junior audio butler, get your own little broom hung up here in the pantry. So many people continue to join up. Shout out to Lada Bartova, Kelly Palatini, Jenna Mosalami, and Chris Brown, who is our first billionaire patron. You don't know what that is? Well, Chris gets to be one, he's a multi-billionaire and we have to recognize that. And two, Chris gets a private call with Adal and I, where Chris defends his favorite thing, and how it compares to Grease. Think of it as his own little custom episode starring Chris Brown. If that's something you want, you gotta hop up the highest tier because you're obviously a multibillionaire and have the money to spend - but even not, you can contribute at the $5 tier and be a cool little Junior audio butler. We’re thinking of adding ad-free to that $5 tier. Is that good, so you don't have to listen to this every time? Think about it. Tell me about it. Oh, that's the name of the show. That's the joke, got you, there it is. If you are all out of Tell Me About It episodes, but you want to hear more things, we have wonderful shows here at Multitude. You might like Exolore. Have you ever wondered what life would be like on a planet different from our own, or how writers create your favorite fictional worlds? Well, no w— wonder no longer, because there are facts and figures for you. Every other week, astrophysicist and folklorist Dr. Moiya McTier explores fictional worlds by building them with a panel of experts. Interviewing professional world builders and scientists or reviewing the merits of worlds that have already been built. You'll learn, you'll laugh, and you'll gain an appreciation for how special our planet really is. So subscribe today by searching Exolore, ‘Exo-’ like out there, and ‘-lore’ like story in your podcast app or go to exolorepod.com. We are sponsored today by Tavour, T A V O U R. Do you want cool beer? Yes, you do. Tavour is our favorite place to find craft beer from all over the US. Tavour does the searching for you, giving you incredible access to a wide range of craft beer from all over the United States. All you got to do is download the Tavour app to access hard-to-find 100% independent craft beer from all over the US. You just build a little box and then they send it to you. It's that cool. Have you ever gotten beer in a box? Have you ever gotten beer shipped to you? I have, it feels incredible. The most convenient part is they hold all that beer in that box in their warehouse until you're ready to have it shipped to you all for one flat fee. So download Tavour from the Appstore right now. That's T A V O U R and you can use ‘TMAI’ for $10 off your first order of $25 or more. Tavour, T AV O U R. Where code ‘TMAI’ will get you $10 off your first order of $25 or more. Okay, let's go back to the show.
[theme]
ADAL: Eric, I will give you fifth-sese which is fifth lunch or whatever that your little stomach demands.
ERIC: Thank you sir.
ADAL: I will give you fifth lunch if you will go ahead and take us over to round three. Do you mind doing that, buddy?
ERIC: [Imitating a hobbit] I will. I'm going to eat two meat pies and have whatever Gan— Gandalf has. [In normal voice] Alright, we're here over at round three. This is the question and answer portion. We have follow-up questions for you, Austin, and these are the gotcha questions—
AUSTIN: Oh, here we go.
ERIC: –that Sarah Palin was warning us about. Please answer the three questions that Mr. Rifai delivers to you.
ADAL: Yes, thank you, Eric. Austin, question number one. As mentioned previously, a la Sugar Ray, could the fellowship have actually just flown on the eagles to Mount Doom?
AUSTIN: I love this question, I wrote a video on this question. Yes, they could have, maybe, but it—Tolkien actually answered this in one of his letters where he said, ‘nah, that would have made a boring story,’ but also the eagles are— they have some interesting lore behind them, where they are most likely agents of Manwë.
ADAL: Oh, like the door-to-door salesman?
AUSTIN: [laughs] No, he's the— he's the lead, kind of like— he's called a Valar, he's like the lead guy. He's like, in charge of Middle Earth. He's the closest thing to, like, the big god Eru Ilúvatar. So they have kind of an ego because they work for the head guy in charge. They'd be like, ‘no, we don't—we're not a taxi service.’ So that's one of the reasons, they probably would say ‘no,’ because they're like, ‘screw you, you know, we don't answer to you.’ Two, Sauron has an air force as well. He has the ring wraiths, he's got a bunch of other air monsters. It's very—so this mission is a mission of discretion. It's a spy mission, which is why they only sent nine people to do it. They're supposed to sneak in and get behind enemy lines and drop the thing before anything gets noticed, that's the whole point of it. Flying an eagle over a mountain, a giant eagle—
ADAL: Yeah.
AUSTIN: —especially a bunch of them, is very conspicuous. On top of it, Mount Doom doesn't have a caldera, you have to, like, go into it properly. So that's, like, another, like, barrier, like you couldn't just drop it in, you’d have to— so you’d have to land the eagles. And then it'd be like, ‘oh, here's the monsters, come to kill us.’ So I mean, maybe it could have happened, but it would have been really boring and there is lore to suggest that it wouldn't work. And Sauron, like, is actually pretty prepared for a full frontal assault, so.
ADAL: Ooh, full frontal. Uh Eric, get me my copy of Natural Diamonds Magazine for later, for no reason. Austin, I have to say, and I'm being completely honest with you. I've heard several people talk about this question. I've heard several people attempt to answer it. That was my favorite answer I've ever heard someone say. I really appreciate the idea that, one, that the eagles are not just like Miyazaki's cat bus where it's like, ‘yeah, I'm here to do your bidding,’ that they have their own— they move on their own volition, they have their own M.O. So I really appreciate that. And then I also liked the idea that it is a mission of subtlety. It is—you could— I mean, Bond could drop an atomic bomb on Blofield, but that—that gets the job done. [laughter] But then that's front page news and that's not what— what's her name, Judi Dench, wants, right?
ERIC: Yeah.
ADAL: So I think that's the best I've ever heard that answered. Eric, do we have a ceiling for how many points are awarded this round? I mean, there's still two more questions to go.
ERIC: Yes. So this round has 10 points in total, but you can kind of do whatever you want, as demonstrated by this episode and the other episodes of this podcast.
ADAL: Yeah, I say that— that answer because it–it’s uh, really hit home for me, and I— finally I got some of the answers to questions I've had for a long time. Full 10 points for that question, and then the rest is—this— the rest of this is all gravy. Question number two, Austin. Hey, man, what's up with Tom Bombadil?
AUSTIN: Oh, that's another good question. Tom Bombadil has no real answer. He— like, there's lore on everything, but Tom Bombadil has no explicit answer from Tolkien. The closest thing we get to a couple of answers is that he always was, which kind of makes him at best a force of nature. Like he's the spirit of that local area. They do—they do say that, like, he's kind of like the Trainman from the Matrix, where he's like, almost like—
ADAL: Oh, Trainman. Definitely, definitely, definitely, 147. Trainman.
AUSTIN: I mean he definitely looks the same way. Like he looks like the same. I'm sure he looks the same. But uh Tom —yeah, Tom Bombadil is like this weird god of this one area, but he's definitely not like a Valar or Maiar, he's like, the weird spirit of the area. And within that realm, he is everything. But outside of it, like, he's just, like, frickin’ who knows. And it's really unclear what limitations he has, other than they think about giving him the ring, and they're like, ‘would you take the ri— w— would it be a good idea to give him the ring?’ And they'd be like, ‘no, he would just like, be like, oh, this is a piece of garbage. Like, oops, I lost it. Sorry, guys. It's, uh, oopsie doopsie! You wanted me to keep that thing? Oh, shit, I was busy having sex with my, like, nymph wife and fishing and all the other stuff that I do.’ So yeah, it's—it's—
ERIC: Are you saying that Tom Bombadil is my college roommate, Abe?
AUSTIN: Yeah, if you gave him power, a bunch of power.
ERIC: Yeah, that's true. He did have a massive C— uh, PC ring. So I guess I did live— I did live with Tom Bombadil.
AUSTIN: So yeah, there's not—there's not a really satisfying answer. And it's kind of—and Tolkien has been asked about this, and he's like, ‘yeah, I'm not gonna tell you. He's just—he's not a god but that's— he just always was and he's this thing…’ He did kind of speculate on the fact that Tom Bombadil could possibly be - not necessarily killed, but eradicated by the expansion of mankind and they'll— and the deforestation and denaturing of the area. So he may not be there forever. He might—or he could end up in a bonsai plant that someone has on their desk and that's— that's all that Tom Bombadil is - this little scrap of dirt.
ADAL: So Lord of the Rings is a Karate Kid 2 prequel?
AUSTIN: Yes, canonically.
ADAL: Dude, I love that. Here's what we’ll say. Plus 1 point for working in the phrase ‘oopsie doopsie.’ It helped remind me of Daniel Day Lewis's Tour de Force performance in Gangs of New York, Whoopsy Daisy. But I immediately have to rescind that point because Austin, I remembered maybe four or five minutes ago, you shit talked Walt Disney, who is maybe my closest cryogenically frozen head friend? So another billionaire cannot be shit upon. So we do have to take that point away. But I will add a point.
AUSTIN: That's fair, that's fair.
ADAL: I will add a point because you mentioned that Tom Bombadil is a weird little god of this one area that reminded me of another good friend, Richard Branson on his island. So we will give a point for that. And I'm willing to give— one act— before we move on to the third question this round, I'm willing to award 2 or let's say 3 additional bonus points if you could tell me, and I don't have anyone in mind. Tell me who you think, if they ever did a Tom Bombadil spin off, which they should, he's by far the most interesting character in the entire series, in my opinion. Who would play the perfect Tom Bombadil in a Tom Bombadil spin-off TV series or movie?
AUSTIN: Okay, it is going to have to be John Goodman.
ERIC: Oooh.
ADAL: Ooh, Austin, that's pretty good. I lied. I did have someone in mind - it was Tom Hardy or John Travolta.
AUSTIN: Tom Hardy would be a good To— It'd be a very different Tom Bombadil than John Goodman.
ADAL: I would say so.
ERIC: I just need to say, Austin, does Tom Bombadil have a mask? Because we have to put a mask on Tom Hardy if he would do it.
AUSTIN: I don't think he has a mask. No, he's— I get the feeling he's barely clothed.
ERIC: Yeah, I don’t know—
AUSTIN: Which also, like, is a good point in favor of Tom Hardy, like—
ERIC: That's true. I— we just need to see if he'll do it.
AUSTIN: This is how we get ladies in the seats, everybody.
ADAL: Okay, here's what I'm trying—I'm trying to work through. Would I watch a, maybe like a top-tier 90 sitcom, it's Tom Bombadil played by John Goodman and his wife, they're working class. They have a couple kids. They live in the Chicago suburbs and the wife is always like, [in nasal voice] ‘Toommm,’ I'd watch that. We’ll say 5 extra points.
AUSTIN: That's a great unique idea you had there.
[laughter]
ERIC: I really thought there was a massive wind-up for a pun. I was watching you go back and back like watching a dun— a slam dunk in slow-motion. And it just didn't go anywhere, you just laid it up there.
ADAL: Huh, it didn't go anywhere. Hmm. Interesting. Eric, 10 points away from you.
ERIC: Noo. Shit. I'm gonna—I'm gonna have to buy it back from the keeper.
ADAL: And let's go to your third and final question for this round, Austin.
AUSTIN: Alright.
ADAL: Exclusionary toxic fandoms seem to start and end with the LOTR fandom. Can you even like Lord of the Rings without knowing what Gimli's cousin's great, great, great grandfather said to Gollum that one time 3000 years ago?
AUSTIN: Yeah, because I don't remember that. I thought that the toxic exclusionary fan bases began and end with Dark Souls. So maybe— I must be living in a different universe. No uh—
ADAL: Shots fired.
AUSTIN: Yeah, there's—there's so much stuff to know, that like, I can't imagine knowing it all. I feel like I must be in the top like 40% of people who know things about Lord of the Rings, and I forget shit all the time. Like, I have really hard opinions about whether Isilldur was actually a bastard or not. And like, like, but I don't remember all of the dwarves' names from The Hobbit.
ADAL: So if you're listening, Stephen Colbert, fuck you.
AUSTIN: Yeah, Stephen Colbert is like a turbo— he's like a turbo nerd. Like I— I would not want to go toe to toe with him on Tolkien stuff. Like that guy studies up. He would have read all the books before this. Like he would have woken up on Monday, and piled through all of them and just demolished you guys.
ADAL: There's an intensity to Colbert's knowledge about Lord of the Rings and Tolkien in general that it's almost, it's like a fire, I can't stand too close to it. I have to—when I see it, I have to turn it off because it's too intense.
AUSTIN: You can sta— you can glance at it and then look away. Yes.
ADAL: Yes, exactly. It's like staring into the sun during an eclipse.
AUSTIN: It’s like cleavage… or that too.
ADAL: Or cleavage. [laughter]
AUSTIN: I recently rewatched— I recently watched Seinfeld, okay? So I have all the Seinfeld things, like, in my head.
ADAL: Oh, interesting. Very quick question for you. And this will garner you an additional 4 points per character. Of the four main characters in Seinfeld, who would be— what would be the analogous Lord of the Rings character for each one?
ERIC: Ooh, very good.
AUSTIN: Oh, okay. So Jerry is obviously Frodo, like they're both basic, like, forgettable, nobodies.
ERIC: Yeah.
AUSTIN: Kramer—
ERIC: And Frodo also dated a teenager, but it's different in Hobbit years.
AUSTIN: Oh, God.
ADAL: And Frodo - a bad actor, just kind of smiles— kinda smiles his whole way through it.
AUSTIN: Yeah. So okay, so that's very easy. Jerry is Frodo. Okay, so Kramer is Gandalf, that one's easy.
ERIC: Sure.
AUSTIN: Saying George as Gimli is almost too easy.
ADAL: I do like it though because he— it—Gimli has a huge chip on his shoulder—
AUSTIN: Yeah.
ADAL: —as per George.
AUSTIN: Yeah.
ADAL: So I think you're right in that regard.
AUSTIN: So then there's Elaine, who is actually very difficult to place, hmm. Okay.
ADAL: She might be Gandalf because she works her comedic magic and ties it all together.
AUSTIN: She— she really does carry that show.
ADAL: In Season Three she died and then came back as Elaine the White.
[laughter]
ERIC: I think that literally happened to Kramer, though. I think he did die, and then come back. Yeah.
AUSTIN: He's— he's had several near-death experiences. Oh, you know, Kramer could be Gollum.
ERIC: Yeah. No, that's true. Yeah. As a reflection of Jerry, it's what would happen if you—
AUSTIN: Yeah. Uh-huh.
ERIC: —if you did too much.
AUSTIN: Yeah.
ERIC: No, that's fair.
AUSTIN: So that’s— I'm amending that. I still don't know how I feel about her being Gandalf. She's like, super stupid and obtuse and so she's Pippin, there we go.
ADAL: Okay.
ERIC: Yeah, that's fair.
AUSTIN: Got it.
ADAL: I'll give you 4— 4 out of 4 points for that. Eric, do you wanna go ahead and tally up round three?
ERIC: Absolutely. Including all the bonus points, we are all the way up to 54 points after three rounds.
AUSTIN: Nice. I think. I have no scope for what is—what is a lot of points.
ADAL: Well, Eric, go ahead and drop the 5, not literally from his total, but drop the 5 and let's move on to round four.
ERIC: Round four is the wheel of extraordinary challenges!
ADAL: Ooh, oopsie doopsie. I've instructed my manservant to prepare a few wacky minigames here to test your intellectual and creative mettle. We'll call this creative Mettle Earth. Man servant, what do we have today?
ERIC: Alright, let's spin the wheel. [makes kazoo-like spinning noises] And now I'll put my—now I'll put my kazoo away and spin the wheel. Alright, we have, Where in the Middle World is Caitlyn New Hampshire? [Adal chuckles] No, nothing?
AUSTIN: Is that an actual question, where's Caitlyn New Hampshire? I was like ‘New Hampshire, I hope?’
ERIC: No, I just thought that people would applaud my— God. Oh, fuck, I should just—
ADAL: It's like watching someone dunk in slow motion and then they just bonk their head on the rim and die.
ERIC: And they're like—and they like died in front of you. Alright. So I have questions for both of you about mi— about some geography.
AUSTIN: Uh-oh.
ERIC: Very— thank you for bringing that up, Austin. Geography is very important to Lord of the Rings. But Mr. Rifai, I don't know if you know that much about Lord of the Rings geography, but I sure do know you know things about Earth geography. So uh—
ADAL: Well, I know that Hobbit hovels in Middle Earth are all about location, location, location.
ERIC: Yeah, you learned that from ‘Hobbits of Sunset’?
ADAL: Yes. Thank you so much, my favorite trash show.
ERIC: So I'm going to— Austin, I'm gonna ask you some Lord of the Rings geography questions. And Adal, I'm going to—Mr. Rifai, I'm going to ask you some earth geography questions.
ADAL: Thank you.
ERIC: Alright, Austin, let's start with an easy one. The Mounds of Anduin are north of what southern kingdom?
ADAL: Oh, the minute Austin heard the Mounds of Anduin, he started thinking about cleavage.
ERIC: Oh, I'm sorry. I—I said I'm sorry, let me say that again. We'll keep that great joke that Adal said there, definitely. The Mouths of Anduin are north of what southern kingdom?
AUSTIN: Mouths of Anduin are north of… Rohan?
ERIC: It is Gondor, unfortunately.
AUSTIN: Gondor. Darn. Oh, well.
ERIC: Gondor. No points, no points.
ADAL: I knew that I was gonna get it wrong. I'm, like, terrible at all geography, so we're gonna do really badly during this. Yeah.
ERIC: Al—that's alright, okay. Mr. Rifai, this one is coming to you straight from Caitlyn New Hampshire. What Carolina state is north of South Carolina?
ADAL: Boy, oh boy. So you have South Carolina, I’m tryna—let me close my eyes, get into my mind palace here. [door rattling noise] Okay, the doors are locked again. Let's go out back. The shed is open and I believe oh, there's a map here in my mind palace. I believe that's, I want to say Upper Carolina, otherwise known as North Carolina?
ERIC: That’s a point! North Carolina—
AUSTIN: Oh, damn.
ERIC: Thank you to your Earth— to your mind palace.
AUSTIN: I thought it was East Carolina.
ERIC: That was in uh— that one's only in Middle Earth unfortunately, Austin. Alright. Question two. Where is the Old Forest? Austin, can you give me the general area of where the Old Forest is?
AUSTIN: The Old Forest is east of the Shire, I'm pretty sure.
ERIC: The Shire - that's a point.
ADAL: Okay. And very quickly I do want to do my old forest impression. [in an old man voice] ‘Mama always said life— what— what did Mama— I forget.’
ERIC: You know, it's interesting that you did that. Mr. Rifai, here's your second question.
ADAL: Uh-oh.
ERIC: What would it sound like if Aragorn, as played by Viggo Mortensen, was from Texas?
ADAL: [as Texan Aragorn] ‘Hi, y'all. I'm a Texas Ranger and I'm gonna get you to your destination. I got this broken sword, ma'am.’
ERIC: That's a point for Mr. Rifai, it is 2-1 Mr. Rifai. Austin, you got to pick it up. Question three, which is the most northern place? The Ash Mountains, the White Mountains, or the Grey Mountains?
AUSTIN: The Ash Mountains?
ERIC: Oh, no. Unfortunately, it was the Grey Mountains. Everyone thinks you're bad at this and you don't know anything about Lord of The Rings.
AUSTIN: I am bad at this, they are correct, they are right.
ERIC: Alright, question three for Mr. Rifai.
ADAL: Yes.
ERIC: Mi—Minas Tirith is uh—tir—tir—
AUSTIN: Tirith.
ERIC: Thank you. Minas Tirith was the capital city of Gondor, but it used to be known as Minas Anor when it was captured by the ring waiths— the ring wraiths in the Third Age, 2002. This is similar to how this city was known as New Amsterdam, but it's also known as the Big Apple and the city that never sleeps.
ADAL: Okay, well I know New Hamsterdam was Baltimore in The Wire season three, maybe, season two? Let's see… okay, babababa. I'm gonna say New York City?
ERIC: That's New York City, that’s another point for Mr. Rifai.
ADAL: Oh, yes!
AUSTIN: Oh, man.
ERIC: Don't worry, Austin you still have two more questions where you can make this up.
AUSTIN: Oh, crap.
ERIC: You got it, you got this. Austin, in the past, where might you find the Witch King hanging out?
AUSTIN: Oh shit, in the pa— ummm… Angmar?
ERIC: Angmar is correct!
ADAL: Nice.
ERIC: Incredible. Two points on the board.
ADAL: I would have guessed it at Buffalo Wild Wings.
AUSTIN: He moved all over, so it took me a minute. I was like, ‘oh shit was he in the [mumbles]?’ he's got a couple places he likes to hang out, and I can't remember them all.
ERIC: That— hey, you got the important one, you got the point. Alright, Mr. Rifai, this for you. Minas Morgul was once a fortress of Gondor called Minas Ithi—Ithi— called Minas Ithil, the Tower of the Moon. But now it is known as a Dead City. What city that you visited do you consider dead?
ADAL: Detroit.
ERIC: That's a poi—that's a point, that's a point. 4 points for Mr. Rifai. This is the last question for both of you.
AUSTIN: That was the other place he likes to hang out, that the Witch King likes to hang out, I couldn't remember the name of it.
ERIC: It’s either the Witch King or Eminem, it's one of the two, I can’t remember. [laughter] And finally, Austin, here's your question, where the hell can I find a camel in Middle Earth?
AUSTIN: Oh shit. I can answer I know— I don't know what it's called, but it's southeast of Mordor but uh—the— is it just called like the Eastlands or something like that, the east? I don't know that here— [makes nonsense noises]— I don't know. I know where it is. I can point it— to it on the map.
ERIC: You're so close with [makes same nonsense noises], you're close.
AUSTIN: That's all I got. I gotta [makes same nonsense noises].
ERIC: Yeah, I'm looking for Haradwaith or Sutherland.
AUSTIN: Sutherland. I knew it's like a geography-something-land, but I couldn't remember exactly where. But, there we go.
ADAL: Oh, speaking of dream team, Tim Haradwaith did— he got screwed, he should have been at least on the practice team. That crossover, come on?
ERIC: Yeah. And, finally, last question for Mr. Rifai.
ADAL: Yes. And can I just say, Eric, these have been—
ERIC: Yeah?
ADAL: —disproportionately hard, towards me. I feel like I am getting the short end of the stick. Next time—hey, next time, make mine a little easier, I am struggling.
ERIC: Okay. That's good to know, I'll keep that in mind. I think I can make it work for this last question.
ADAL: Thank you.
ERIC: Mr. Rifai, name a river?
ADAL: Uh, I wanna say River Phoenix?
ERIC: I—I swear to God I knew you were gonna fuckin say that, I wrote it down. I wrote it down right here. So therefore, absolutely you get a point.
ADAL: Which reminds me, Eric please, um, please take my Platinum Card and buy Idaho? Just so I can have, you know, my own sort of like, what do I want to say, like my own personal, my own sort of secluded Idaho— my own sort of just like Ida—like I have my own—what am I trying to say here? My own—
ERIC: You're—you're oh god. No, you—you said so many things around it, I forgot the name of the movie.
ADAL: My own private Idaho. Thank you.
ERIC: Oh, your private Idaho.
ADAL: Yes.
ERIC: Yeah, we'll bui—we will build a wonder wall around Idaho as fast as possible.
AUSTIN: Wonderwall.
ADAL: Thank you. One day—and people out there, if you're looking, one day you will find me.
ERIC: You—that's it. You—we are still working on the technology for a Champagne Supernova. I cannot promise anything.
ADAL: And then I'll join my aforementioned friend Richard Branson in space.
ERIC: Absolutely. Alright, Austin, thank you so much for participating in Where in Middle World is Caitlyn New Hampshire?
ADAL: Whoo, applause, insert applause [applause sound], screams.
ERIC: That was rock-cappella, that wasn't me, that was actually rock-capella. Austin, you scored 2 out of 5, that gives you 4 points, but I'll give you an extra point because I guessed that Adal was going to say River Phoenix, so you—that brings you up to five points.
ADAL: Austin, thank you so much for coming on. This has been a goddamn deli–oh, one more thing, that's right. For a final bonus point, Austin, you will answer this random trivia question about the world's most perfect film, Grease.
AUSTIN: Oh, shit. Okay.
ADAL: During the Greased Lightning dance set, when John Travolta is on Greased Lightning, a U.S. flag is mounted on the wall which bears the modern 50 Star design. If the film is set in 1958, which two states should be missing from the flag?
AUSTIN: Well, we had Hawaii by then. So two states missing?
ERIC: Two states missing.
AUSTIN: Really? Did we not have—we didn't— did we not have both Alaska and Hawaii then?
ADAL: Those are the correct two, where gonna give it to you.
AUSTIN: Wow!
ADAL: I'll also say there was a moment during that dance set song where John Travolta is handed some cellophane wrap and unrolls it and kind of rubs it on his body and it looks like a moment where the director said like, ‘hey, just have fun with this cellophane’ for some reason. It's a very—the saran wrap, it's a very weird moment. I'm begging you to go back and watch the movie just for that three-second moment, it's very weird.
ERIC: I can't believe this. I can't believe it. That is incredibly funny. John Travolta just makes strong choices everywhere. We're like, great job. You're— you're a hero to so many—
ADAL: Yes.
AUSTIN: He’s always committing.
ERIC: —thank you.
AUSTIN: The guy shows up to work.
ERIC: Yeah. And just to confirm, yes, the fla— in 1958, Alaska was only added to the flag in 1959 and Hawaii was added to the flag in 1960.
AUSTIN: I just Googled it too, because I was cur— I had no—I learned it today.
ADAL: Ooh, distrust.
ERIC: I also looked it up because I knew Austin was looking it up.
ADAL: Well, let's go ahead and take a look at the high scoreboard, please, Eric?
ERIC: Absolutely. Austin, you did a wonderful job here. You got 60 points in total. Congratulations. Unfortunately, we— when we look at the big board, that is not one of the top five scores that we've had. We are still looking for you to break in. We are loo—if you want to come back with something else, you can break into this. With Matt Young doing— talking about Toy Collecting - 72 points.
AUSTIN: Damn.
ERIC: Janet Varney, talking about Miniatures, with 73.66 repeating points, Jeffrey Cranor and Amanda McLoughlin, tied at 76 points—
AUSTIN: Yikes.
ERIC: —talking about Dallas— the Dallas Cowboys and Retirement Plans, respectively. That would be funny if they were combined. And finally, in our number one spot, Dr. Moiya McTier talked about exoplanets and got 5,075 points.
AUSTIN: I may have a little bit of trouble catching up to that one.
ERIC: You tried your best and that's all that matters. Man, Austin got so ornery after we didn't put him on the high scores.
[laughter]
AUSTIN: I can survi— I—it— I was sitting there going like the geography, I should have looked at the damn map before coming on here, it would’ve taken me two seconds. I was sitting here afterwards, I was like ‘stupid Grey Mountains!’
ERIC: I wanted to ask you, why is there a camel in Middle Earth? Why did— why is there a camel?
AUSTIN: I didn't even know— where did they have a camel? I did not know there was an actual camel in the books. I was gonna say it would have to be a battle wo— the battle with the— the Southron folk, but that's the only thing I could think that the camel would show up.
ERIC: I guess so. I asked a bigger nerd than I to help me with those questions, so I'll have to double-check with them.
ADAL: Austin, you didn't make the top five, but thank you so much, a la Bal-Roger Federer, you did— you had a good match. You had a good game. Love that backstroke, and much like Timothy Olyphant, I want to say you'll probably be cast in the power— what is it— the Power of— Rings of Power TV show. Eric, what's that called?
ERIC: It is Rings of Power. I have not watched it because it's weird.
ADAL: Yeah. Austin, thank you so much. Before you leave, is there anything you'd like to plug?
AUSTIN: Yeah, I have a YouTube channel called ShoddyCast that I upload all my videos on. It's basically all that I do. I talk about like, why bad guys are actually the good guys, which, you know, there's a Morgoth one and a Sauron one coming, because I am a sympath— I'm a Sauron sympathizer.
ADAL: Uh-oh.
ERIC: Uh-oh, I feel like you should have looked at the themes of that book a little closer.
AUSTIN: Okay. I—I'm gonna—no. Hold on, hold on. The themes, I know, I know we're outro-ing here, but I have to talk about this.
ADAL: This turned into me buying a Volkswagen.
ERIC: I'm sorry, did you not see how the good guys lived in one side of the world, and the bad guys lived in another part of the world?
ADAL: Uh-oh!
AUSTIN: There's an interesting thing about that, where the books are actually supposed to be framed as historical novels that are written—
ADAL: And Austin— for listeners, Austin is holding up one of the books with a post-it note in it, to make it look like he's read it.
AUSTIN: I have it— they're all noted— notated. Most of it’s for the episode on the eagles I did.
ADAL: Oh, Glenn Frey. Joe Walsh. Oh boy, sorry, go on.
ERIC: Donovan McNabb.
AUSTIN: Okay, so these are written by —okay, so there's The Hobbit, which was written by Bilbo for sure. And then the Lord of the Rings was partially written by Bilbo, but then finished by Frodo. The Silmarillion is written by elves. Now, the actual Lord of the Rings that you read isn't the one that Bilbo and Frodo wrote, it's the copy from the people of Gondor, where they edited it to be, you know, for their own people, you know, some accidental ‘humans are awesome’ shit gets in there, you know, stuff like that. So all of it is framed by the winners and the people who were involved. So everything—
ADAL: History is written by The Hobbits, famously. The ol— That old adage.
AUSTIN: Exactly! And you never actually see much bad stuff that Sauron and Morgoth, you just be like, ‘oh, they have, they have slaves we think. Nevermind that I am a feudal peasant who can't do and make any choices with my life.’ You know, so yeah, there's—there's a lot of— there's a lot of stuff in there. That's— there's— he—Tolkien was smart, he baked bias into his books in case they started to look a little rough around the edges in— over time and be like, ‘oh, it's just that old historical bias that's built into these books. Those—it's not accidental imperialism from Tolkien. No, no, no, no, no, no, it's the Gondorians, they, you know have their bias, and we just need to blame them.’ So who knows what the real truth is?
[laughter]
ADAL: Huh, so now you’re a truther. Austin, thank you so much for saying goodbye. Really took a turn at the end there. [laughs]
ERIC: I—I want to subscribe to this YouTube channel. I want to hear that on—on V.O.D.
ADAL: Austin thinks Sauron had some good ideas. Anyway, thank you all so much.
ERIC: Yeah. I heard the Balrog can't melt steel beams.
AUSTIN: Hey, you ever seen the blacksmith do the actual tests with—where he heats up a bar that doesn't melt and he just whacks it over with a hammer and it's really funny.
ERIC: Oh, that sounds incredible.
ADAL: Well, that's all for this episode of Tell Me About It. Tune in next week for more Deus Ex Eagles, white wizards, and the truth about Sauron. [long pause]
ERIC: Adal, say goodbye Eric.
ADAL: Goodbye Eric. Oh yes, I see. We swapped it. Say goodbye, Eric.
ERIC: Goodbye Eric. That's good, that would work either way.
[theme]
Proofreader: SR